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#1
06-10-2008, 07:37 AM
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Class Development: Footpad
CLASS DEVELOPMENT : FOOTPAD
Intro: Note: This is a pretty hefty article .. for those of you that just want the nitty gritty skip down to “important” or “recap”. So…, I have been doing a “bit” of pking lately inorder to race change… and as you all know im all for footpads. I found my self in various unplesant ‘situations’ and issues not with my game play but rather with the footpad class itself.. thus I would like to cover some of the footpad’s main arsenal and my suggestions/tweaks. The strange situations: Its been a while since I played and I think most people forgot how to fight a footpad.. The first few days I had no problem taking down anyone with 15k-20khp.. Why? Malignant Injury – vanish – come back and oh look oh look your near death  .1) Then came the ‘group running’ were several people of my size begain running together (after remorting and such) This was obviously more difficult bc there was 2-3x the hp I had to chop my way through.. My solution ? Bandit tactics of enmeshing. With this nifty tool I could isolate one group member and do away with him/her before the group realized what was going on and then move on to the next target… 2) Next were the “big hitters” and the “healers”. Both of theese categories laughed of my poison and called me a wuss for not staying in combat. I compensated by throwing immedieatly after malig and ending with a blindside or Crit wound or Concentration of killing (assassin specials). Theese allowed me to out damege / overwhelm the target(s). If I actually hit. 3) Finally the annoying part.. people realized that a locked footie was a dead footie.. so I continuously found my self either battle locked or chasing a ghost (the target recalled). To fight this I worked on my timing with thieve’s side step / blindsided / malig / and throwing with an occasional crit w when I new I was going to get locked. 4 ) “Big players that can see me” / people with imparmant abilities.. I really didn’t know how to beat theese people so I just avoided them. (bash/stun/north wind / channeled anger / beguile to name a few..)(and yes its even sadder when people’s pet’s impair you instead of the actual person o0)(or rescue the target >.<) **Important** See here, the deal is all this stuff I mentioned is actually A LOT harder to do than say :P Footies are: - bad at running in comparison to other classes (nim is only useful at low lvs) - have a hard time competing with people that have: >20khp/more damage/locks/imparments/heal/more defense/eye for cloak/ the list goes on… - cant tank at all lol (very little nr / quickness) - there are problems with the individual abilities which I will try to cover in the next section. *The arsenal:* [ Skills ]: climb swim kick withdraw palm striking fist critical attack nim throw dodge trip critically wound glancing pierce unseen motion stealth archers competence ashi barai kick one of four, pivot bandit tactic of enmeshing retreat disengage combat art of imbalance vanish thieves' sidestep cloak hire concentration of killing malignant injury stratagem of the cloak shadow regenerate singularity of fate winded passage ambush blindsided machination singularity of focus continuum of combat takushiki *Note Assassin abilities included I would like to start with Nim by saying it sucks. Footpad=thiefs=should be able to steal more than they run. (that’s all we do after all right..?) - This would take care of the whole not being able to run very well issue since we woulnt have to tank o0  .- Suggestion: reduce the lag << substancially Next lets look at Hire .. it SUCKS. Why do other classes get supper pumped up pets with uber eq on them? We get stuck with lv 80 mortal mobs that at best hit in bay for 500ish damage. I cant tell my follower to ambush someone and rescue dosent do much good if it only has a few hitpoints… I cant hire a healer to heal me or a pollir to tank well or a mage to buff me ..not to mention some abilities are limited (like I cant hire a noj and have it fuse me).. enough said there. Trip – Moderately usefull now that it was revamped.. prevents players from performing certainn actions in battle i.e (you are trying to recover from being triped first) **Art of imbalance – I still have no idea what this does.. something related to trip .. why is trip the only imbalancing thing we have ? arent footpads suppose to know the weak points in every race? (yes im aware that this is supposed to reffer to critical attack) -Suggestion - replace glancing pierce / striking fist / ashi barai kick / one of four pivot (I actually like the description of this one) with new imbalancing abilities possibly charge based. e.x. addle(cant perform certain actions), silence(cant cast/invoke),slow(give em lag),shadowbind(makes each successive attack hit harder?) e.x one of four is a “cornering tactic” as in trap the opponent in a corner. it should allow you to choose a corner (n,e,s,w) and then prevent the opponent from moving in that direction. useable only outside of battle and also inflicting damage. Continuum of combat – are you joking ? giving a lock ability to a class that is suppose to stay out of battle? There is only one use for this.. locking people at near death to ensure the kill o0. Also usefull if someone else is doing the tanking… Singularity of focus – Ok so this is supposed to transform some of the footpad’s stratagem attacks into full out critical attacks.. Why do I always pick Singularity of fate istead (they are on the same prev) 1) it’s a short duration / long prev singularity of focus - unbreakable concentration 82% (02:00) singularity form (14:00) 2) fate gives us substancial stat bonuses : singularity of fate - agility +38 (04:59) - dexterity +38 (04:59) - speed +38 (04:59) - quickness +18 (04:59) singularity form (09:52) 3) im hardly ever fighting someone long enough to make good use of it , the exception to this is combining it with concentration of killing which reduces the lag between each critical attack (from 4k to 2.5k) , +1 hit / 2 dex and +1 damg / 10 int. and is also very usefull for 5 mins of running o0 or making sure you hit people with malig. concentration of killing - damage +36 (05:54) - hit +175 (05:54) - wind-striking 82% (05:54) aura - oe naj'k (35:01) The problem here is obvious.. 35 min prev. For singu of focus *-Suggestion add affects like attacks cannot be parried/dodged Ignore opponents natural resistance - cut down prevention time - place on a different prevention than singu of fate. - Note Silent Malevolance could be brought back with some of theese affects on it (or shadowbind each successive attack does more damage) Bandit tactics of enmeshing - great move for isolating someone from a group, based on dex. bandit tactic of enmeshing - confined movement 78% (03:00) *(easily 100% with some more dex) bandit tactics (18:00) - down side? People recall when they cant move  , only got one shot- Suggestions? Dunno this one is pretty good as is. Blindsided machination – An awesome ability that does good damage and prevents people from recalling.. based on dex and agil. blindsided machination - anti-recall 100% (00:19) - down side 20 secs is just not enough some times especially if the target is running around (lack of enmesh) - you need to be cloaked .. another reason y im race changing -Suggestion Again charged based prev 3 charges 3 min prev .. slightly reduce damage.. also plays along well with the footpad’s attack and retreat strategy Cloak – Great – weakness eye for cloak - probably the footpad’s best defense based on agil. cloak - cloaked 102% (19:03) stealth maneuver - basic level (28:43) Stratagem of the cloak – I like the description on this one.. could use Critical Attack – Awesome useful for a life time. Both passive and Active uses. -Suggestions Shadow - great in combination with tracking Ambush – great for starting a rumble Vanish - great for leaving a rumble Critical Wound – the 2nd assassin ability (concentration of killing was the first) Sadly, crit w is only a basic leathal attack o0 and caps at 25k on players (which im just find with) also based on dex and int. - down side if its dodged or if it misses well it’s useless (this happens often) - Suggestion reduce the prevention time when this happens. critically wound - critically wounded 78% (00:33)* (easily 100% with some more dex) - lethal attack - basic level (16:40) Other Suggestions Traps, Locking/Unlocking doors /Higher chance of finding loot/ reduced lag abilities (not time walker but simmilar) There are so many things I can think of , and not just for this class but for any of them o0. I think in general we need some more class development going on I got tired so there will be no recap atm. Tks Sasuke 
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#2
06-18-2008, 07:57 AM
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Any moment now, Sneaky's gonna pop in and start telling me to shut up, or how I don't know shit about shit, and so on.
Enmesh: It's good. Maybe a little too good, IMO. What I would do is maybe make it last about 60 seconds(less 5 per 100 Strength the target has?), or possibly the % gets reduced with every successful step/Strength check the target makes. In exchange, the footie gets 10(? Presumably at 300 Strength, to signify how many nets they can carry) charges per hour(or whatever), so they can pin the person down(with multiple nets if they really think it's worthwhile), but have to decide if they want longer duration(1 charge per initiation of fighting), or more guaranteed enmeshing(by stacking many nets on the opponent). In addition to the enmeshing effect(capped at 99%, so that you can actually somehow break free), add a !recall affect for half the duration, and 50% chance to fail spellcasting(because you can't quite make the motions). 3 minutes for enmesh(current duration for most that I've seen) is a little too long, especially when the Super-Koj Gladiator does it(I've seen as much as 117-121% confined movement for 3 minutes, which is a death sentence). Nim is actually kind of a double-edged sword right now. In the old days, you had footies nimming entire areas far faster than one could clear it(barring the area attacks), which lead to a lot of grousing and attempted killing(barring SM). Now, you have footies RDying or getting raped by gankers because of the battle-lock. Personally, I'd leave the lag on nim as is, possibly drop it by 10-25%(small steps, people), but take off the battle-lock or halve the % of battle-lock. Art of Imbalance was for tripping flyers. I don't know what it does these days. Improves the amount of agility reduced per % of Trip over 100? I'd limit Hire to levle 99 Humanoids with mortal classes. This would give you everything except the topmost mortal ability of each class(ie, no double blindsiding or whatever). Come to think of it, I would go so far as to suggest that all charmies be unable to use any ability which requires a level higher than 99(no awakening of the guard, etc.) Followers are really all about gaining extra actions/options in combat, as long as you remember to give multiple orders before performing lag-heavy moves(eg, critical), or make them do high lag moves(stun, etc). As such, I would not buff them too much. Quote:
AOHS - perfect stun 100% (00:20)(still blocked by stun/impair immunes. Boo!) antei, basic form (1:00) WWA - quickness +16 (18:00) - hit +20 (18:00) antei form, basic (20:00) Perhaps if focus had about a 30-60 second duration, with say, a 3 minute prevention, would that address your concern, maybe make it a more difficult choice between the two? Vanish/Ambush As a Ninja, I feel your pain(although slightly less because I don't bleed myself to recover endurance). These 2 need minor revamping. Vanish is great, EXCEPT WHEN YOU NEED IT. How so? Well, it takes 2k lag to begin(1 round more of combat), then when you actually step out of the room, it's another 1k lag. Except when you're under half life and really need to flee(but out of preventions), then it's a massive 1500 lag. This may not seem like much, since players are typically semi-slow to catch vanishes(around 3 seconds to scan/track and follow, typically), but with mobs, they typically seem capable of jumping you 0.05 seconds after you leave the room, leaving you no time to set up the ambush, unless they were lagging, or you somehow managed to vanish at the beginning of the combat round "tick"(ie, 0100 into the 2000 lag of the round). See below for more info. Ambush is near GODLY at mortal, doing anywhere up to 2k damage at a stage where most have only 1500 HP maximum. However, it suffers from some weaknesses. Reading the help file: "As this skill requires stealth to be performed effectively, the amount of damage inflicted will depend on how unsuspecting and unprepared the victim is when you ambush them." Translation: If they're of equal or higher level, your odds of landing a solid blow are reduced greatly. In this case, the higher your level, the more paranoid and ready for ambushes you are, having already experienced a lot more than someone of lower level. Don't believe me? Try ambushing any mob over level 100, compared to say, Bayeshi mobs. The >100 mob is typically far better at dodging/missing/whatever, and not just because of stat differences. My suggestion: Ambush could do with becoming a racial at over 100% levels. Something like 1% per 20-40%(needs tweaking. That's either 7.5% or 4.25% racial at 250%) over 100% Ambush skill. People might argue that it's overpowered, but I don't think so. Of all the classes, only Hunters/Ninjas/Footpads have Ambush(and since Nojohrs cannot use a skill at higher than 100% level, they are not relevant to it). The damage is variable, going from about 500 on a shielded race to around 1500 if you're very high in Dex/Agi/Spd. On mobs, it's anywhere from 500 for resisted to 5k on semi large(but stupid) mobs. I'm not sure if racial ambushes(Drow, Faehr, Weretiger, Kobold) are any better or worse in combat. Perhaps if the damage on racial ambushes, like racial crits(former Hobbit, or the auto-crit from having a high critical attack %), was reduced compared to the active versions, we might have something. This would also help address one other weakness of ambush. When multiple people are ambushing the same target, the game seems to pick one of them at random(because I don't know if there's any specific criteria), and the rest don't kick in. This is great, when you have only one guy who ambushes, or has really high stats. Sucks if you're the poor sod who can also ambush, but because of race/class/eq you're a little bit less damaging. Not forgetting that some groups/people lack the coordination to throw/ambush, as well as it being a very group-unfriendly skill(everyone has to stay still for the ambusher to initiate. Any movement breaks it). Additionally, injury to the ambusher also breaks ambush far too easily. By making it into a passive attack-granting skill in addition to an active one(like crit), you ensure that everyone with Ambush can contribute to combat, even if the party is moving along at near breakneck pace through zones. 
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#4
06-19-2008, 03:05 PM
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This is exactly the problem with Nodeka these days. You guys who have been maxxed for years don't even remember what it's like to struggle anymore. Sure, you can beat the crap out of us, but what's the point? Does it prove anything other than "big beats little"? Instead of making comments like "I don't give a shit what you have to say.", either don't post, or provide constructive advice. Beyond "Max yourself and get good eq." No shit? Anyone can give that advice. If this makes you want to PK me, so be it, but quite frankly, this "I don't want to listen, but I'll post that I don't want to listen anyway." crap annoys the hell out of me.
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#5
08-03-2008, 07:22 PM
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Personally,
I'd like to see nim to be extended so that player characters can be nimmed, either that or remove it from game and give some sort of passive buff to footpads to get extra gold when they kill a mob, which of course can give more based on stats, prac level, etc, etc. Combat wise, i've heard similar things i.e a battle locked footie is a dead footie, however, It also seems to be true that i haven't seen any huge footpad's running around, (since my return that is). However a footpad with 50k hp, 50k endurance, with all their defensive and offensive abilities over 100% prac, to me sounds like a force to be reckoned with.
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#6
08-04-2008, 10:01 PM
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Actually, I've got to agree with Fenulia, at least in terms of discussion. Sure, it was in his right to say that since nobody ever said forums have to be constructive. On the other hand, condescending dismissal tends to just turn people off from discussion.
Elitism feels good, but it sure makes you look like a wipe. Footpads are always going to be a weird case, I think. They're *extremely* powerful when allowed to do their thing, but toast when they can't.
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#8
08-10-2008, 08:38 PM
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Okay I'm sorry let me rephrase my post from 2 months ago.
Sasuke- get maxed with decent gear and fight people your size, then get back to us. Once you have maxed and your gear has improved and you have fought bigger people, others will be able to empathize with you and dicuss your issues. Fenulia- this thread was about footpad development, as such I ignored anything you posted. Does this post make everyone feel better, or do I need to bring some tissues? Blitz- you probably wont see bigger footpads running around simply because footpads can't do their thing as Rar pointed out. Rar- Elitism makes me tired. Being as ass-wipe feels good. If anyone wants to discuss footpads we can, but I have a feeling no one will.
__________________
Take solace in the dark, for the light brings truths untold.
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#9
08-11-2008, 01:32 AM
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The point is that:
Quote:
Quote:
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With footpads, even, I think the "you need max stats to understand" argument is in some ways less compelling (and in some ways, more). The thing about footies that I remember is that a lot of their "win" is either capped or else really viable at relatively non-uber stats - stuff like enmesh and (assassin's) crit wound. It's the one non-caster class I'd most readily change to, because I feel that my best SU gear being caster stuff keeps me in the caster realm EXCEPT in the case of footpad. I may not be the best I could be right away without SUs, but unlike many other classes, I'd be a completely viable annoyance in PK with just basic gear. On the other hand, footies fight differently from a lot of other classes, because their tools work in that direction and because they NEED to. Once you get tossed into a battle lock or an infused marauder with ridiculously boosted stats that you can't flee from, you're SOL because there isn't a lot you can do. That's where I think gear and stats would make the giant difference - being able to drum up enough hp/defense and hit/dam/offense to bring you up to paper bag levels instead of tissue. I do agree with Sasuke's original point that footies could use some development, but I don't have a lot to say about the post itself because it's kind of scattershot and random. Development starts with a focused goal, and I think pointing out that goal (for example, discussing whether footpads need more reliable "outs" from hand-to-hand combat or alternately better in-combat effectiveness) would be a better first step to discussion.
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#10
08-11-2008, 02:21 AM
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Footpads need 1 abilty to escape battle lock. Plain and simple. A huge prevention would be needed.
My issue with Sasuke is that he judges his experiences on trying to fight people in groups 2-3 times his size. It's just not going to work for a footpad. Beyond that- footpads should be great at escaping battle as soon as they enter. I feel that marauders currently have this niche under their abilities. If we could get more kungfu power to the footpad while increasing their escape abilities, their pvp would increase. While on the subject of footpads though, I do feel that the new morality regen is heavily biased against footpads. Malignant injury is now completely nullified against the oposing morality if they have more players on. The real question is how to address footpads and DoT given the current situation on the mud. IMO footpads need: 1) more kungfu 2) more escapes 3) a way out of battle lock 4) additional DoT attacks, possibly as the kungfu 5) a stronger base class
__________________
Take solace in the dark, for the light brings truths untold.
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