The problem with crafted items - Page 3

Syveril · #21 10-01-2009, 12:11 AM

Splitting crafted gear into "fighter" and "caster" gear isn't a practical solution. Casters generally choose to wear gear other than speed, because they need their casting stats to boost their spellups and spells. And what would they do with all those attacks without hit/dam/physical intensification/!dodge/!parry/!NR/impairments/decent weapon dice to back it up? It's fighter classes that can wear 800 speed at a time.

I still think dam/speed gear is out of line. And that's why I'm wearing it. I'm looking forward to Whim nudging down dam/speed gear (at least the +dam portion of it) and boosting hit/dex. I think it's still pretty hard to fit dex/hit onto your gear (does anyone aside from footpads wear dex on purpose? What about hit outside of hit/dam?), so a boost would definitely help that.

Argh · #22 10-01-2009, 02:38 AM

well...i wear it for running too...but for pk it's really not that impressive...i usually change into hps gear for it...only reason you don't actually notice it is because of your autoflank skill and your extra flank damage thinghy...not to mention ignore NR...and also damage mitigation from stun...thing is not all classes have those...and as much speed/dam as i stack, a warlock with willpower/hp eq with stupid high NR will still take minimal damage from me!!! really...go try it without ignore NR...and you'll see the problem most fighter classes will have against warlocks...it gets even better with RP eq on both parties...you can really feel the love then...there is basically nothing i can do about it...unless you're gonna tell me to class change...

Serenity · #23 10-01-2009, 07:11 AM

Well yes class change better than more tones, but then I have always been on the side of improve the weak over tones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whims Blog

This change was implemented and tested with crafted gear in mind. If things work out as I hope (with balance remaining fair and the restrictiveness of speed easing up a little), I may be able to leave speed gear at its current levels rather than tweaking it as mentioned on the Nodeka 411 discussions. (I have some ideas in store for the attributes that are just slightly undervalued at the moment by many classes, such as hit and dexterity.)

Syveril · #24 10-01-2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argh

well...i wear it for running too...but for pk it's really not that impressive...i usually change into hps gear for it...only reason you don't actually notice it is because of your autoflank skill and your extra flank damage thinghy...not to mention ignore NR...and also damage mitigation from stun...thing is not all classes have those...and as much speed/dam as i stack, a warlock with willpower/hp eq with stupid high NR will still take minimal damage from me!!! really...go try it without ignore NR...and you'll see the problem most fighter classes will have against warlocks...it gets even better with RP eq on both parties...you can really feel the love then...there is basically nothing i can do about it...unless you're gonna tell me to class change...

I think I know the craziness of warlocks even better than you.

But I'm not talking about pk.

Syveril · #25 10-01-2009, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serenity

Well yes class change better than more tones, but then I have always been on the side of improve the weak over tones.

Certainly reasonable minds can disagree, but I think that approach can exclude precise corrections.

For example, if one race is has too much damage, how can you adequately compensate other races? Adding damage to all other races disadvantages healing, and changes game balance with respect to classes with healing. Adding health to all other races would be impossible to balance between races/classes with different defensive mechanisms (between damage mitigation vs. avoidance vs. limiting vs. countering). Additionally, greater damage scales indefinitely, whereas health is an absolute quantity. If you try to increase NR on all other races, do you now tone all sources of !NR and 1/2NR? Even if you could balance everything through exhaustive tweaking in the realm of pk, isn't this race still advantaged in running?

And then, why would you go through this ridiculous exercise when one starts with the premise that one race has too much +dam? If that is the problem, it's silly to think that a developer would be unable to simply fix the problem itself rather than redesign the entire game around one race. Simply put, if one race is overpowered, then it should be toned.

I believe this principle applies to all aspects of a game. However, this is not to say I don't recognize some value to avoiding nerfs when practicable-- it's much more annoying to the player to have toys taken away than to start poor and have them slowly added later on. Over the years, I've noticed that Nijlo and now Whim have generally followed this principle. But whenever a true imbalance reveals itself, I'm a firm supporter of the measured and judicious application of the nerfstick.

Syveril · #26 10-01-2009, 11:58 PM

I'm glad you quoted Whim there, because I had misread Whim's quote the first time around. It's only on seeing Whim's words quoted that I saw the implication.

Based on the language Whim used, +hit and dexterity don't appear to be slated for boosting on crafted gear, which is what my first impression was. Rather, it seems that Whim has ideas on increasing the usefulness of +hit and dexterity, perhaps focused on the classes that are undervaluing these attributes. And of course, new skills/spells or mechanics (or both) are always exciting. Maybe there will even be some universal mechanics that will help my class value dexterity more highly.

Argh · #27 10-02-2009, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syveril

I think I know the craziness of warlocks even better than you.

But I'm not talking about pk.

yeah...you probably would :P

now taking into context that warlocks run very well from the get go...they've got high hit/dam from buffs and summoned weapons...lotsa insta attacks...time bending at 100%...high NR/evade/parry...physical intensification...sixth sense (increase melee damage??)...spammables...high speed from spellups...reign of spirit...

Argh · #28 10-02-2009, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syveril

I'm glad you quoted Whim there, because I had misread Whim's quote the first time around. It's only on seeing Whim's words quoted that I saw the implication.

Based on the language Whim used, +hit and dexterity don't appear to be slated for boosting on crafted gear, which is what my first impression was. Rather, it seems that Whim has ideas on increasing the usefulness of +hit and dexterity, perhaps focused on the classes that are undervaluing these attributes. And of course, new skills/spells or mechanics (or both) are always exciting. Maybe there will even be some universal mechanics that will help my class value dexterity more highly.

yup...i will honestly say that i don't bother very much with +hit or dex...especially dex...only time i bother with +hit is if i can get 2 or more hit for every damage i'm giving up...or if i don't really need any other stats elsewhere (speed hitting breakpoint...but with the new speed rules...hmmmm :P)...now if the new rules about improving hit and dex gets implemented, it would be a lot more interesting if i do say so myself...personally, i've always liked dex as a stat in most games i've played..

Serenity · #29 10-02-2009, 11:43 AM

@Syveril,
Was not aware we were talking race changes... they are relatively cheap to change race if a tone is implemented, a class on the other hand is now worth a fortune. I would agree in what you say with races and tones, but am still to be swayed on the class side of things.

@Argh,
Time bending at 100%? check tones please its 40% also several other things were toned in the same time period such as none stackable reign of spirit, and weapons and and and... oh and finaly 6th sense by Whims own words does very little for warlocks compared with casters.

Argh · #30 10-03-2009, 01:55 AM

yes serenity...it does very little for warlocks as compared to other casters...but it's still a little more than most other classes...unless physical intensification does very little for warlocks as well which i doubt...
warlocks timebending got changed to 40%? really?? i thought it was only the duration that got changed...i've gotta go check it out...last i knew, rolex was still blasting 2-3 wrinkles per round and i doubt he'd be so lucky to be able to pull it off that often with only 40% time bending...i know about non-stackable ROS though...but you gotta admit, being able to stack it was ridiculous...especially when pvping with the +align one...even without stacking, it does a considerable amount of damage...but yeah that's not too much of an issue...oh...plus warlocks get crushing blows!! :P